From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 02:13:24 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 01:13:24 -0500 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page Message-ID: In order to ensure MaraDNS' continued maintenance and support, I am looking ways to get a little bit of revenue from the MaraDNS codebase. One way I can do this is by adding unintrusive text-only to MaraDNS.org. I have already made the modifications to the web page design to accommodate the ads, and a prototype of the revised design is here: http://maradns.com/ (I registered this domain back when I registered MaraDNS.org to stop cyber-squatters from grabbing it; I have, after over a decade, finally made the domain active) I would like to get feedback from the community of MaraDNS users about what they think of having text-only ads on the web site before placing these changes on MaraDNS.org. What do people think of the ads? If ads can not work, can people think of other more effective monetization strategies for MaraDNS? Thanks in advance for your feedback, - Sam From jefsey at jefsey.com Sun Jul 3 04:31:02 2011 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:31:02 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703102234.05dabdc8@jefsey.com> Sam, this is an excellent thing! We need for credibility reasons that you get enough revenues from MaraDNS to pay for its continuous support by you or another person. This is one of the reason why I am so slow in building a "fork" (actually an extension based on MaraDNS). As you know, being myself strangled into FLOSS R&D for politrical independence reasons, I cannot spend too much on this. But as an individual searcher I am ready to allow a paypal $ 100 @ month budget for the help I am expecting from a trested because financially stabilized MaraDNS. jfc At 08:13 03/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: >In order to ensure MaraDNS' continued maintenance and support, I am@ >looking ways to get a little bit of revenue from the MaraDNS codebase. > One way I can do this is by adding unintrusive text-only to >MaraDNS.org. I have already made the modifications to the web page >design to accommodate the ads, and a prototype of the revised design >is here: > >http://maradns.com/ > >(I registered this domain back when I registered MaraDNS.org to stop >cyber-squatters from grabbing it; I have, after over a decade, finally >made the domain active) > >I would like to get feedback from the community of MaraDNS users about >what they think of having text-only ads on the web site before placing >these changes on MaraDNS.org. What do people think of the ads? If >ads can not work, can people think of other more effective >monetization strategies for MaraDNS? > >Thanks in advance for your feedback, > >- Sam From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 14:12:05 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 13:12:05 -0500 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703102234.05dabdc8@jefsey.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703102234.05dabdc8@jefsey.com> Message-ID: > But as an individual searcher I am ready to allow a paypal > $ 100 @ month budget for the help I am expecting from a trested because > financially stabilized MaraDNS. > jfc If you are willing to give me $100/month to maintain MaraDNS, I am willing to provide the following additional support for MaraDNS: * I will apply patches to fix critical security problems in MaraDNS 1.0 and MaraDNS 1.2, as well as patches that work around any changes to gcc that make it impossible to compile older versions in GCC 4.4.4 (the version of GCC will be updated as RHEL/Scientific Linux gets updated to new versions) * Should this support continue, once IPv6 becomes widespread ("widespread" meaning: A typical residential broadband account in the US comes with IPv6), I will test MaraDNS 2.0 to make sure it works well with IPv6 (the IPv6 code is there, but it hasn't had real-world testing) * I am willing to support one more operating system besides "home edition" Windows and Scientific Linux 6 (If the desired supported OS is MacOS or another non-FOSS OS, I will need to be given a computer that runs the OS in question) - Sam From jefsey at jefsey.com Sun Jul 3 20:01:09 2011 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 02:01:09 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703102234.05dabdc8@jefsey.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703232003.05dac430@jefsey.com> Sam, I am certainly interested. However, what I would be happier with are: 1. a documented full fledge current MaraDNS off-the-shelf compilation suite installer. i.e. - a bundled zip file of the current version and adequate Windows compilers (or URL to the most recent acceptable version) you can download on a machine or on a USB key - a script to compile MaraDNS under Linux/MinGW/Cygwin and install it with a ready to run sample configuration. - hopefully a Bind.db format support. The document should come with MaraDNS - architectural blocks and function descriptions. - help you would like to get from external developper. - a part to would-be developpers. This is to permit a student, a medium level developper to best try and discuss MaraDNS with fellow students and FLOSS discussion lists. And teachers to give an half-hour introduction to MaraDNS and to its code with little preparation. I am ready to translate the documentation in French if you can compact a clear document in four pages. 2. I have a crazy OS in view. It would be to integrate MaraDNS into an Inferno OS package. I do not know yet much of Inferno. It seems not much supported, however its architecture seems to fit many of the architectural needs I identify for the extended vision of the Internet we identified last year. Its origin is the most brillant one as an operational, commercial grade Plan 9, i.e. the Bell Labs successor to Unix. Making it the networked successor to Linux ? 3. In terms of IPv6 I am interested in RFC 6296. As an IUser (Intelligent Internet Use user) I support Fred Backer (Cisco is a good name :-)) and Margaret Wasserman concepts but whish to integrate them into the ... DNS in using digital names. Not much different from internationalized names but relating to an IDv6 (IPv6 local IID) rather than to a chinese name. I do think that much of these concepts and extensions (part of the alfaDNS project) could be discussed if and until you can review or assist them. At the same time it would advertise MaraDNS. My main interest in an alfaDNS "fork that would not be a real fork" but an extperimental extension, is a different name that would serve as a lightning rod. So experienced errors would not to be associated to the "MaraDNS" brand. And to the countrary showing that only the robustness of MaraDNS makes it acceptable as a DNS experimental test-bed for all. jfc PS. I mailed $ 100 and I would suggest others do the same. Our common interest. At 20:12 03/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: > > But as an individual searcher I am ready to allow a paypal > > $ 100 @ month budget for the help I am expecting from a trested because > > financially stabilized MaraDNS. > > jfc > >If you are willing to give me $100/month to maintain MaraDNS, I am >willing to provide the following additional support for MaraDNS: > >* I will apply patches to fix critical security problems in MaraDNS >1.0 and MaraDNS 1.2, as well as patches that work around any changes >to gcc that make it impossible to compile older versions in GCC 4.4.4 >(the version of GCC will be updated as RHEL/Scientific Linux gets >updated to new versions) > >* Should this support continue, once IPv6 becomes widespread >("widespread" meaning: A typical residential broadband account in the >US comes with IPv6), I will test MaraDNS 2.0 to make sure it works >well with IPv6 (the IPv6 code is there, but it hasn't had real-world >testing) > >* I am willing to support one more operating system besides "home >edition" Windows and Scientific Linux 6 (If the desired supported OS >is MacOS or another non-FOSS OS, I will need to be given a computer >that runs the OS in question) > >- Sam From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 04:05:23 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 03:05:23 -0500 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703232003.05dac430@jefsey.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703102234.05dabdc8@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110703232003.05dac430@jefsey.com> Message-ID: > 1. a documented full fledge current MaraDNS off-the-shelf compilation suite > installer. i.e. The document to compile MaraDNS in Windows can be written. > - a bundled zip file of the current version and adequate Windows compilers > (or URL to the most recent acceptable version) you can download on a machine > or on a USB key The Windows compiler is actually a pair of .exe files which I have here: http://samiam.org/software/MinGW-3.4.2.exe http://samiam.org/software/MSYS-1.0.10.exe > - a script to compile MaraDNS under Linux/MinGW/Cygwin and install it with a > ready to run sample configuration. > - hopefully a Bind.db format support. This has been mostly done. bind2csv2.py should convert the majority of BIND zone files in to MaraDNS csv2 zone files (indeed, the reason why I updated the csv2 format between MaraDNS 1.2 and MaraDNS 1.3 was to make it easier to convert BIND zone files in to MaraDNS' zone file format) > The document should come with MaraDNS > > - architectural blocks and function descriptions. > - help you would like to get from external developper. > - a part to would-be developpers. We can look at that down the road. I would prefer to do that with Deadwood; the code base is a good deal cleaner. > This is to permit a student, a medium level developper to best try and > discuss MaraDNS with fellow students and FLOSS discussion lists. > And teachers to give an half-hour introduction to MaraDNS and to its code > with little preparation. > > I am ready to translate the documentation in French if you can compact a > clear document in four pages. > > > 2. I have a crazy OS in view. > > It would be to integrate MaraDNS into an Inferno OS package. I will see if this is something that can be done quickly. I do believe Inferno is POSIX compliant--it is done by the same people who made UNIX after all, so I do not think it will be too hard to port to Inferno. I know "make" works a little different, as well as the Inferno version of "tar", so a bit of research will need to be done here. If you like Plan9/Inferno, there is both "Plan 9 from User Space" as well as 9base: http://hg.suckless.org/9base/ These two packages can be put on top of a Linux kernel to give it a more Plan9/Inferno userspace than the traditional GNU tools which emulate a 1970s UNIX system. > 3. In terms of IPv6 I am interested in RFC 6296. As an IUser (Intelligent > Internet Use user) I support Fred Backer (Cisco is a good name :-)) and > Margaret Wasserman concepts but whish to integrate them into the ... DNS in > using digital names. Not much different from internationalized names but > relating to an IDv6 (IPv6 local IID) rather than to a chinese name. I don't have time to read RFC 6296 right now. > PS. I mailed $ 100 and I would suggest others do the same. Our common > interest. Thank you very much. Everyone: For personal reasons, I will not have Internet access for a few days. I will hopefully have 'net again by the end of this week, or, in the worst case, next week sometime. I will mail the list when I am on the internet again. - Sam From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Mon Jul 4 06:42:47 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 11:42:47 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110703102234.05dabdc8@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110703232003.05dac430@jefsey.com> Message-ID: <4E119927.4000002@periapt.co.uk> I have no objection to ads on the website though I am sue Sam will appreciate some ads are more irritating than others. As I expect it to be several months before Debian is on Deadwood I don't expect Debian to be high on Sam's prioity list, and in any case I expect to put some effort into solving Debian specific issues myself before raising them with Sam. However for the record: 1.) I have a patch making all the functionality in duende configurable on the command line. Some of these options are useful for making duende/maradns fit better into Debian. Some are good for rebranding duende as a potentially generic tool. 2.) I have an issue with ej2man. The man pages generated fail to pass Debian's quality checks. Again I am expecting to come up with my own patches for this. 3.) maradns fails to build on Hurd as shown here: https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=maradns&arch=hurd-i386&ver=1.4.06-2&stamp=1307522160 . Unfortunately this is somewhat normal for Hurd and this is VERY low on my priority list. On 04/07/11 09:05, Sam Trenholme wrote: >> 1. a documented full fledge current MaraDNS off-the-shelf compilation suite >> installer. i.e. > > The document to compile MaraDNS in Windows can be written. > >> - a bundled zip file of the current version and adequate Windows compilers >> (or URL to the most recent acceptable version) you can download on a machine >> or on a USB key > > The Windows compiler is actually a pair of .exe files which I have here: > > http://samiam.org/software/MinGW-3.4.2.exe > http://samiam.org/software/MSYS-1.0.10.exe > >> - a script to compile MaraDNS under Linux/MinGW/Cygwin and install it with a >> ready to run sample configuration. > >> - hopefully a Bind.db format support. > > This has been mostly done. bind2csv2.py should convert the majority > of BIND zone files in to MaraDNS csv2 zone files (indeed, the reason > why I updated the csv2 format between MaraDNS 1.2 and MaraDNS 1.3 was > to make it easier to convert BIND zone files in to MaraDNS' zone file > format) > >> The document should come with MaraDNS >> >> - architectural blocks and function descriptions. >> - help you would like to get from external developper. >> - a part to would-be developpers. > > We can look at that down the road. I would prefer to do that with > Deadwood; the code base is a good deal cleaner. > >> This is to permit a student, a medium level developper to best try and >> discuss MaraDNS with fellow students and FLOSS discussion lists. >> And teachers to give an half-hour introduction to MaraDNS and to its code >> with little preparation. >> >> I am ready to translate the documentation in French if you can compact a >> clear document in four pages. >> >> >> 2. I have a crazy OS in view. >> >> It would be to integrate MaraDNS into an Inferno OS package. > > I will see if this is something that can be done quickly. I do > believe Inferno is POSIX compliant--it is done by the same people who > made UNIX after all, so I do not think it will be too hard to port to > Inferno. > > I know "make" works a little different, as well as the Inferno version > of "tar", so a bit of research will need to be done here. > > If you like Plan9/Inferno, there is both "Plan 9 from User Space" as > well as 9base: http://hg.suckless.org/9base/ > > These two packages can be put on top of a Linux kernel to give it a > more Plan9/Inferno userspace than the traditional GNU tools which > emulate a 1970s UNIX system. > >> 3. In terms of IPv6 I am interested in RFC 6296. As an IUser (Intelligent >> Internet Use user) I support Fred Backer (Cisco is a good name :-)) and >> Margaret Wasserman concepts but whish to integrate them into the ... DNS in >> using digital names. Not much different from internationalized names but >> relating to an IDv6 (IPv6 local IID) rather than to a chinese name. > > I don't have time to read RFC 6296 right now. > >> PS. I mailed $ 100 and I would suggest others do the same. Our common >> interest. > > Thank you very much. > > Everyone: For personal reasons, I will not have Internet access for a > few days. I will hopefully have 'net again by the end of this week, > or, in the worst case, next week sometime. I will mail the list when > I am on the internet again. > > - Sam -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From Bradley at NorthTech.US Tue Jul 5 04:25:25 2011 From: Bradley at NorthTech.US (Bradley D. Thornton) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 01:25:25 -0700 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E12CA75.5090009@NorthTech.US> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 On 07/02/2011 11:13 PM, Sam Trenholme wrote: > In order to ensure MaraDNS' continued maintenance and support, I am > looking ways to get a little bit of revenue from the MaraDNS codebase. I like the idea of PayPal, Payson, and other donate buttons. They may or may not bring in much, but they certainly bring it to you instead of relying upon the affiliate SPAMming that ads are. At one time years ago, I had Amazon links for the "DNS and BIND" book, and a couple of others which I myself read, used, and recommended. It didn't bring in a dime. I think that maybe if anyone was interested in the books they found a much cheaper avenue to procure them, although I still felt good because I was contributing to the branding and name share for the books in the marketplace. Perhaps Adsense is a good program, a lot of people do it. I would suggest having a shrink wrapped version of the product base available - since it just makes sense (for me anyway) to actually purchase a subscription of, for example, Slackware Linux - that way I know I'm contributing monetarily, and I get something kewl for my bookshelf collection that I'll never open anyway (coz I d/l it from a mirror anyway). There are lots of avenues you can use to have your product available for online ordering, so I won't bother to make a dozen recommendations here. What I will say in regards to ad SPAMming, is that I'll never see it myself, it just shows up as empty white space in my browsers. I block ALL ads - ALL ads, starting with basic things like Ad-Block Plus, and many others. I simply opt out of allowing that stuff to render (in any form, including text) since I have no desire to see it. Again, my personal recommendations are: 1.) Donate badges 2.) a mail order, shrink wrapped version of your business product. In my no so humble opinion, it makes absolutely no sense at all not to have item number 2 - regardless of if or how many orders will be received - it's a product, therefore, one should be able to order it in a box. I hope that helps :) kindest regards, - -- Bradley D. Thornton Manager Network Services NorthTech Computer TEL: +1.760.666.2703 (US) TEL: +44.203.318.2755 (UK) http://NorthTech.US -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Find this cert at x-hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net iQEcBAEBAwAGBQJOEsp1AAoJEE1wgkIhr9j3Kt8IAJ70IRSmhEVU8FClCUOxSHFg WnpyFlTNrnopwmVI+RF3PUQ0zWeNdoygDnyXoOqx5ipwAM+QPNmO0idKS4/MhI8m deihWO+oUU8egrkpEZ7YAKDcl6UunVlTAhX/7fRzYpWJO8gq11/7JcMQSblkiPLv 5EQtR6VFFk2xVaZJ/cC5IhUP6mDjb6PRsUofROLM4fu4ddUtkDRp524PVmJwGMMs /qeImpq75MVCunZIlm0wI8abgfbcSgjXks4zhvI3TnngcXNhO90a76g7Zn5BC+Uk POvZfDipqnMX8wes6V1k+NoyJcLet869K0cA0koScMat6FU4ENJ033YG9sJXhdY= =r+rB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 22:15:26 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 22:15:26 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: <4E12CA75.5090009@NorthTech.US> References: <4E12CA75.5090009@NorthTech.US> Message-ID: > I like the idea of PayPal, Payson, and other donate buttons. They may or > may not bring in much, but they certainly bring it to you instead of > relying upon the affiliate SPAMming that ads are. There is, in fact, a donate button on MaraDNS's web page. I reinstated it back in May: http://aem2.vk.tj As it turns out, I didn't get a single donation in all of May nor June, which was one of the things that motivated me to put text-only ads on MaraDNS' web page. I will get back to the idea that using ads to support a website is "SPAM" later on. > At one time years ago, I had Amazon links for the "DNS and BIND" book, > and a couple of others which I myself read, used, and recommended. It > didn't bring in a dime. [...] > Perhaps Adsense is a good program, a lot of people do it. I'm not making much with my Adsense ads, but it is enough to cover hosting costs, and, if I'm lucky, I might be able to take my wife out to dinner once a month with the money I am getting. > There are lots of avenues you can use to have your product available for > online ordering, so I won't bother to make a dozen recommendations here. I'm curious what kind of product you would like to see me sell. Are you thinking of a CD-R in a jewel case with Nicholas Bamber's MaraDNS logo on the front? Perhaps I can sell mugs at cafepress.com with this logo? Another possibility is making a book with all of MaraDNS' documentation, but there would be some labor involved getting the book together--which would necessitate me making the book non-Free. > in regards to ad SPAMming "Spam" is a word that has different meanings to different people. I define "spam" as an advertisement that I have to pay for. Let's compare some economic models for advertisements: Economic model Paid for by Benefits --------------------------- ------------------ ----------------- Web ad (unmetered internet) Advertiser A,W,V Web ad (metered internet) Advertiser, viewer A,W,V Webpage viewed with adblock Webmaster Viewer Usenet spam Usenet provdider Advertiser Email spam Email server Advertiser A: Advertiser W: Webmaster V: Viewer Here, I consider any economic model where someone besides the advertiser pays for an ad to be "spam". In this sense, a webpage ad is spam for someone viewing the webpage on a metered internet connection. Which is why I have absolutely no objection to people on metered internet connections using an ad-blocker in order to not waste their limited bandwidth. Web ads are obviously in the webmaster's best interest: They are money in the bank for me. Looking at the above chart, from the point of view of a webmaster, a person using ad-block may as well be a spammer; just like a spammer, the ad-block user is getting a net benefit at someone else's expense. I, in no way, do not want to make the experience of MaraDNS.org unpleasant. While I disagree with the morality of using ad-block, I understand that a person using this tool probably has legitimate reasons for using this tool (besides saving precious bandwidth on a metered internet connection). Indeed, I find advertisements that animate and ads that play sounds extremely annoying, and, yes, I sometimes do turn on my ad-blocker to block those ads since otherwise I wouldn't enjoy reading the ad-supported content. This is why I will only have text ads on my site. I already have done a trial with non-text ads on my blog, and they paid me no more than text-only ads. There is no point annoying my users more with ads that do not increase my ad revenue. I am hoping that ad-block users find other way to compensate me for my bandwidth and, yes, my labor developing and maintaining MaraDNS. Coffee mugs with the MaraDNS logo may be something cool to have, for example. In the meantime, people are free to click on the "Paypal donate" button prominently visible at MaraDNS.org (please don't tell me that adblock blocks even this). > 1.) Donate badges Done. If your ad-blocker happens to block them, you may also, if you wish, send a donation to the PayPal email address abiword_bugs at yahoo.com (Note: I never read email sent to this address; it is *only* for PayPal donations) > 2.) a mail order, shrink wrapped version of your business product. I would have to do that via a third party. I'll probably just make it all of the MaraDNS 1.4 and 2.0 tarballs, as well as the documentation part of the webpage in a "live CD" format. > I hope that helps :) Thanks for the suggestions. From Bradley at NorthTech.US Fri Jul 8 04:27:45 2011 From: Bradley at NorthTech.US (Bradley D. Thornton) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 01:27:45 -0700 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: References: <4E12CA75.5090009@NorthTech.US> Message-ID: <4E16BF81.1020104@NorthTech.US> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 On 07/07/2011 07:15 PM, Sam Trenholme wrote: >> I like the idea of PayPal, Payson, and other donate buttons. They may or >> may not bring in much, but they certainly bring it to you instead of >> relying upon the affiliate SPAMming that ads are. > > There is, in fact, a donate button on MaraDNS's web page. I reinstated it > back in May: http://aem2.vk.tj As it turns out, I didn't get a single > donation in all of May nor June, which was one of the things that motivated > me to put text-only ads on MaraDNS' web page. yes I remember when you said you were no longer encumbered by a potential conflict of interest and was putting it back up :) > > I'm curious what kind of product you would like to see me sell. Are you > thinking of a CD-R in a jewel case with Nicholas Bamber's MaraDNS logo on > the front? Yes. It may not bring in a thing, or it might. I don't know. But I do personally believe that anytime someone has a business product (GPL'd, BSD, MIT, Artistic License, or otherwise) There should be a tangible version of that product available commercially. As I indicated before, Patrick Volkerding gets about 50 bucks a year from me - it ain't much, but it helps, and although I never unwrap the jewel case, I proudly display it in my ubergeek bookcase :) I even bought Solaris when Sun made it free - I got the very last free version of Solaris for Sun4U and X86 (Solaris 10 10/09), just before EllisonCo rescinded the free license. although I'll typically either d/l or make iso files from CDs/DVDs, If I feel supportive of a product I will pay for the shrinkwrapped version to be shipped to me, and I'll pledge to you that I'll do the same for MaraDNS. Perhaps I can sell mugs at cafepress.com with this logo? I haven't seen the logo yet. It got scrubbed coming to the list as I recall, but yes, the nice thing about CafePress is that it's completely free for you to setup, so there's no loss whatsoever regardless, unless you consider the time to u/l a logo and pick out a couple of g-strings, coffee cups, and wife beater T-shirts :) > Another possibility is making a book with all of MaraDNS' documentation, > but there would be some labor involved getting the book together--which > would necessitate me making the book non-Free. If you want to do a hard copy thang, you may want to check out Lulu.com, or I can look up a couple of others too. They're not all that cheap from what I've seen though, and you may want to forgo that expense if you're not sure on the return. Also, There's some software affiliate programs where you can accept subscriptions or one time fees with d/l links for software (in this sense we're talking about docs) that have expiries - I forget who, and actually have an account I've never used with them, but I know that the CB Extension (Community Builder) For Joomla, although technically free and GPL'd, had this sort of schemata if you wanted access to the docs. I don't advocate, nor am I suggesting you do any of this for Mara DNS docs - but if you really want to produce hard copy in the form of a bound book, in addition to a downloadable pdf/html/ps format for free, I think that would be a good idea - yet again, only if you think that the expense will be recoverable. I do know that there are *some* (meaning two or three I've come across) on demand printer/publishers, that won't cost you anything, and pay you a couple of bucks for each slightly overpriced copy of a book. Again, in my opinion, this is much like the CD w/the software, it really serves no purpose for the consumer other than to *Have it*, and be able to put it on a book shelf to collect or have a tangible version they can support you through. I don't actually know if MaraDNS warrants enough voluminous copy for an actual book, but then again, perhaps it could if you had walk-throughs for devoping several types of models from the home user to the enterprise or ISP - like, adding cookbook stuff well beyond what regular docs are intended to provide (Still, a lot of well thought out work in development and formatting which may not provide a return on your investment of time). > > I, in no way, do not want to make the experience of MaraDNS.org unpleasant. > While I disagree with the morality of using ad-block, I understand that a > person using this tool probably has legitimate reasons for using this tool It's a philosophical reasoning on my part. I only occasionally use even google, opting instead for goosh or scroogle. I operate several port 70 servers (no such thing as SPAM w/Gopher). The software archives I keep down the gopherholes are ONLY available via gopher, which means IE users, can't get there at all, and I would have even blocked http to gopher proxies had I not met with extreme pressure to not do so. I just don't do spam, don't subscribe to the notion that *domainers* are legitimate anythings other than cybersquatters (even though Congress thinks they legitimized and created that industry through legislating and changing the meaning of the term cybersquatter or domain ransomer), and a few other things. Even my Albertson's, Ralphs, and other *Club Cards* are registered to Brittney Spears with the same address as the Munsters on 1313 Mockingbird lane, Beverly Hills, 90210. Some things are just on my private boycott or obfuscation or block list - - and my definition of SPAM is one of those things I just categorically block. > > > I am hoping that ad-block users find other way to compensate me for my > bandwidth and, yes, my labor developing and maintaining MaraDNS. If you do the CD w/Jewel Case & Logo, I'll indeed support your product that way :) > the meantime, people are free to click on the "Paypal donate" button > prominently visible at MaraDNS.org (please don't tell me that adblock blocks > even this). You can breathe a sigh of relief - PayPal button is right up there at the top :) Kindest regards - -- Bradley D. Thornton Manager Network Services NorthTech Computer TEL: +1.760.666.2703 (US) TEL: +44.203.318.2755 (UK) http://NorthTech.US -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Find this cert at x-hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net iQEcBAEBAwAGBQJOFr+AAAoJEE1wgkIhr9j3gIEH/3T8YajMKKVHOK8BV+ixwcZw dIEAvmkFvksTLuArs9Rz6XPRExyZLgYrkXwG6lQxasD0B7q82+IdNXD+i6ELxQ3K tUyhbUuiTEu/h9E+69z9dfuR1OBeDLCaX9Y9Ju3h7LthVitqnzTqp4bX9I43bIl6 5I3hSuu7A/Knri2qioBELwjGFjc0oYZrcSdOz30bf8A6dgQt11T4Ctyp4mRuaI1l vHwLjrceFK02wxwzSwN6yjZsMpsQY/Q24fGBsc+bhnXgpONmiQcX+20kwiurkiJI mqEcJTrBzod2Mb62x4hBgX0kI90nmgLrhUBXwzrODRjbCHEj9COjWVF96Xjy1vk= =sOHZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From MSands at EPLUS.com Fri Jul 8 08:40:54 2011 From: MSands at EPLUS.com (Mike Sands) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:40:54 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page In-Reply-To: References: <4E12CA75.5090009@NorthTech.US> Message-ID: <2688766582E16041AFB400DD06CDCB791960F56825@EPEXMB02.epgpdom.com> Sam Here's the way I see it. I get a great software package for dns services that is significantly easier to deal with than bind or djbdns for free and for that I have to see a few text ads on your site? It's a no-brainer put up the ads and support your work. I don't consider the text only ads to be intrusive enough in bandwidth or in site design to consider them spam. -----Original Message----- From: list-bounces at maradns.org [mailto:list-bounces at maradns.org] On Behalf Of Sam Trenholme Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:15 PM To: MaraDNS support mailing list Subject: Re: [MaraDNS list] Discussion: Putting ads on the MaraDNS web page > I like the idea of PayPal, Payson, and other donate buttons. They may or > may not bring in much, but they certainly bring it to you instead of > relying upon the affiliate SPAMming that ads are. There is, in fact, a donate button on MaraDNS's web page. I reinstated it back in May: http://aem2.vk.tj As it turns out, I didn't get a single donation in all of May nor June, which was one of the things that motivated me to put text-only ads on MaraDNS' web page. I will get back to the idea that using ads to support a website is "SPAM" later on. > At one time years ago, I had Amazon links for the "DNS and BIND" book, > and a couple of others which I myself read, used, and recommended. It > didn't bring in a dime. [...] > Perhaps Adsense is a good program, a lot of people do it. I'm not making much with my Adsense ads, but it is enough to cover hosting costs, and, if I'm lucky, I might be able to take my wife out to dinner once a month with the money I am getting. > There are lots of avenues you can use to have your product available for > online ordering, so I won't bother to make a dozen recommendations here. I'm curious what kind of product you would like to see me sell. Are you thinking of a CD-R in a jewel case with Nicholas Bamber's MaraDNS logo on the front? Perhaps I can sell mugs at cafepress.com with this logo? Another possibility is making a book with all of MaraDNS' documentation, but there would be some labor involved getting the book together--which would necessitate me making the book non-Free. > in regards to ad SPAMming "Spam" is a word that has different meanings to different people. I define "spam" as an advertisement that I have to pay for. Let's compare some economic models for advertisements: Economic model Paid for by Benefits --------------------------- ------------------ ----------------- Web ad (unmetered internet) Advertiser A,W,V Web ad (metered internet) Advertiser, viewer A,W,V Webpage viewed with adblock Webmaster Viewer Usenet spam Usenet provdider Advertiser Email spam Email server Advertiser A: Advertiser W: Webmaster V: Viewer Here, I consider any economic model where someone besides the advertiser pays for an ad to be "spam". In this sense, a webpage ad is spam for someone viewing the webpage on a metered internet connection. Which is why I have absolutely no objection to people on metered internet connections using an ad-blocker in order to not waste their limited bandwidth. Web ads are obviously in the webmaster's best interest: They are money in the bank for me. Looking at the above chart, from the point of view of a webmaster, a person using ad-block may as well be a spammer; just like a spammer, the ad-block user is getting a net benefit at someone else's expense. I, in no way, do not want to make the experience of MaraDNS.org unpleasant. While I disagree with the morality of using ad-block, I understand that a person using this tool probably has legitimate reasons for using this tool (besides saving precious bandwidth on a metered internet connection). Indeed, I find advertisements that animate and ads that play sounds extremely annoying, and, yes, I sometimes do turn on my ad-blocker to block those ads since otherwise I wouldn't enjoy reading the ad-supported content. This is why I will only have text ads on my site. I already have done a trial with non-text ads on my blog, and they paid me no more than text-only ads. There is no point annoying my users more with ads that do not increase my ad revenue. I am hoping that ad-block users find other way to compensate me for my bandwidth and, yes, my labor developing and maintaining MaraDNS. Coffee mugs with the MaraDNS logo may be something cool to have, for example. In the meantime, people are free to click on the "Paypal donate" button prominently visible at MaraDNS.org (please don't tell me that adblock blocks even this). > 1.) Donate badges Done. If your ad-blocker happens to block them, you may also, if you wish, send a donation to the PayPal email address abiword_bugs at yahoo.com (Note: I never read email sent to this address; it is *only* for PayPal donations) > 2.) a mail order, shrink wrapped version of your business product. I would have to do that via a third party. I'll probably just make it all of the MaraDNS 1.4 and 2.0 tarballs, as well as the documentation part of the webpage in a "live CD" format. > I hope that helps :) Thanks for the suggestions. From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 19:49:58 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:49:58 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] I have updated both MaraDNS and Deadwood today Message-ID: I have updated both MaraDNS and Deadwood today; I'm getting closer to the Deadwood 3.0.03 and MaraDNS 2.0.03 releases. Details are in my blog: http://agh2.vk.tj - Sam From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 19:58:02 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:58:02 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Deadwood update In-Reply-To: <4E054B40.1030100@NorthTech.US> References: <4E054B40.1030100@NorthTech.US> Message-ID: > > > Hi Sam, where's the upstream for the dig (and perhaps the other bundled > DNS tools) that's included w/Scientific Linux? > > Do you have an URL for the upstream developer's version of this this > non-standard version that you can provide? > > The version is DiG 9.7.3-P1-RedHat-9.7.3-2.el6_1.P1.1 The source is here: http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/scientific/6/SRPMS/vendor/binutils-2.20.51.0.2-5.11.el6.src.rpm - Sam From heinrich.buschermoehle at init.de Mon Jul 11 10:58:08 2011 From: heinrich.buschermoehle at init.de (Heinrich Buschermoehle) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:58:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [MaraDNS list] dig fails on zone transfer References: Message-ID: Sam Trenholme gmail.com> writes: > > > The next scheduled day for MaraDNS bug fixing is April 18, 2011 > > Actually, it will be on Friday, April 15, 2011. > > - Sam Hi, i still found this error in our 1.4.06 installation of maradns. Can you provide a fix like this: http://samiam.org/blog/20110415.html for 1.4 users? thanks in advance Heinrich Buscherm?hle From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Mon Jul 11 12:51:25 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 17:51:25 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] dig fails on zone transfer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E1B2A0D.2080402@periapt.co.uk> Heinrich, May I ask if you are deploying MaraDNS directly from Sam's source or from one of the distributions? And if the latter which one? On 11/07/11 15:58, Heinrich Buschermoehle wrote: > > Sam Trenholme gmail.com> writes: >> >>> The next scheduled day for MaraDNS bug fixing is April 18, 2011 >> >> Actually, it will be on Friday, April 15, 2011. >> >> - Sam > > Hi, > > i still found this error in our 1.4.06 installation of maradns. > Can you provide a fix like this: http://samiam.org/blog/20110415.html for 1.4 users? > > thanks in advance > Heinrich Buscherm?hle > > > > -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Mon Jul 11 14:24:55 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 19:24:55 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Why duende? Message-ID: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> Sam, A quick question. Why did you call duende "duende"? -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 15:14:05 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:14:05 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Why duende? In-Reply-To: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> References: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: It's Spanish for "daemon" :) - Sam 2011/7/11 Nicholas Bamber > Sam, > A quick question. Why did you call duende "duende"? > > -- > Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ > PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu > From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 15:33:13 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:33:13 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] dig fails on zone transfer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > i still found this error in our 1.4.06 installation of maradns. > Can you provide a fix like this: http://samiam.org/blog/20110415.html for > 1.4 users? > > Eventually. My MaraDNS plan right now is: * Release Deadwood 3.0.03 this month or early next month. This might take a while: I discovered a blocking bug the last couple of days resolving answers.yahoo.com with Deadwood: I know what's wrong and need to fix it before Deadwood 3.0.03 * Once Deadwood 3.0.03 is out the door, I will then look in to releasing MaraDNS 2.0.03. Probably August sometime. * Important fixes like this will eventually percolate down to the MaraDNS 1.4 branch. I'll probably release that December sometime. * Once the bureaucrats at Debian play around with MaraDNS, they may or may not make this fix available in their version of MaraDNS. Bottom line: If you can't wait for that fix: * Go to http://maradns.org/download/2.0/snap and get the latest snapshot. Note that MaraDNS 2.0 does not support having recursion and authoritative DNS on the same IP. * Compile and install it yourself * If you need this for 1.4 right now, all MaraDNS changes are available as patches in snapshot tarballs; look in the update/2.0.03 directory The reason why all this is so slow is because no one is paying me to maintain MaraDNS. - Sam From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Mon Jul 11 17:03:58 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:03:58 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Why duende? In-Reply-To: References: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <4E1B653E.1090201@periapt.co.uk> Sam, Looking at some images I found on flickr I really do believe this. However there are a few nuances. "Daemon" refers to the messengers between humans and the gods of Greek mythology. The evil demons of Christian mythology are derived from that. And according to Wikipedia (so I guess it must be false) "goblin" would be a better translation. The "demonic" meaning seems to return in discussions of flamenco. On 11/07/11 20:14, Sam Trenholme wrote: > It's Spanish for "daemon" :) > > - Sam > > 2011/7/11 Nicholas Bamber > >> Sam, >> A quick question. Why did you call duende "duende"? >> >> -- >> Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ >> PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu >> -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From dkowis at shlrm.org Mon Jul 11 22:43:20 2011 From: dkowis at shlrm.org (David Kowis) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:43:20 -0500 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Why duende? In-Reply-To: <4E1B653E.1090201@periapt.co.uk> References: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> <4E1B653E.1090201@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <4E1BB4C8.2050002@shlrm.org> On 7/11/2011 4:03 PM, Nicholas Bamber wrote: > Sam, > Looking at some images I found on flickr I really do believe this. > However there are a few nuances. "Daemon" refers to the messengers > between humans and the gods of Greek mythology. The evil demons of > Christian mythology are derived from that. And according to Wikipedia > (so I guess it must be false) "goblin" would be a better translation. > The "demonic" meaning seems to return in discussions of flamenco. Picky Picky Picky. :P David From jpmens.dns at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 13:22:58 2011 From: jpmens.dns at gmail.com (Jan-Piet Mens) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:22:58 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Why duende? In-Reply-To: References: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <20110712172258.GB78291@jmbp.local> > It's Spanish for "daemon" :) Daemon is demonio. Duende is an elf or goblin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duende_(mythology) -JP From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 02:03:05 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 02:03:05 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Why duende? In-Reply-To: <20110712172258.GB78291@jmbp.local> References: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> <20110712172258.GB78291@jmbp.local> Message-ID: You're right, of course, but let me tell you a story... Once upon a time, when I was at Berkeley (this was back when the legendary XCF fishtank still existed), someone was pronouncing "daemon" "Demon" and was quickly corrected; the pronunciation is "daemon" (Like "day-min" or, in IPA: /dei.mIn/). Likewise, with "duende", I wanted to use a word that was not "demon". Actually, the real reason I chose "Duende" is because it's a word in a song by a former Mexican pop group I liked called Kabah in their hit "La Calle de las Sirenas": http://samiam.org/kabah.html To really digress, while the group has broken up, the singer I had a crush on, Maria Jose, has a really post-Kabah successful solo career (@lajosa on Twitter / http://twitter.com/#!/lajosa [1] ) - Sam [1] No, I do not know why Twitter has a "lajosa" program in their root directory, nor what scripts written in lajosa look like. :) 2011/7/12 Jan-Piet Mens > > It's Spanish for "daemon" :) > > Daemon is demonio. > Duende is an elf or goblin. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duende_(mythology) > > -JP > From Bradley at NorthTech.US Thu Jul 14 05:07:20 2011 From: Bradley at NorthTech.US (Bradley D. Thornton) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:07:20 -0700 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Why duende? In-Reply-To: References: <4E1B3FF7.1000204@periapt.co.uk> <20110712172258.GB78291@jmbp.local> Message-ID: <4E1EB1C8.7080800@NorthTech.US> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 hm... Interesting, but I don't actually concur with much in this thread on the *English* side of things. AFAIC, and according to every single textbook I've ever cracked on the subject, *daemon* is pronounced DeeMun, as in *demon*. The origin of the use of the term daemon comes from DARPA's Project MAC at MIT in 1963. In every University setting as well as old school UNIX shops I've worked in, as well as in both versions of the GNU Testament of the Linux Bible (and several other, even older texts) that I have, the word is pronounced with a long EEEE. Since it was a math team (as were most computer related things in those days), they incorporated the term from inspiration derived from a thermodynamics problem/experiment by James Maxwell in the 19th Century. Maxwell's, *Helper*, was a daemon, separating molecules depending upon their temperature. Although Maxwell was wrong, the invisible helper *daemon* affecting control over the storage of matter was the analogy that birfed our modern day usage. This is confirmed by at least two members of the team, which is now called CSAIL. Here's some fups if you're interested in citations: http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Daemon.html and... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Computer_Science_and_Artificial_Intelligence_Laboratory On 07/12/2011 11:03 PM, Sam Trenholme wrote: > You're right, of course, but let me tell you a story... > > Once upon a time, when I was at Berkeley (this was back when the legendary > XCF fishtank still existed), someone was pronouncing "daemon" "Demon" and > was quickly corrected; the pronunciation is "daemon" (Like "day-min" or, in > IPA: /dei.mIn/). Likewise, with "duende", I wanted to use a word that was > not "demon". > > Actually, the real reason I chose "Duende" is because it's a word in a song > by a former Mexican pop group I liked called Kabah in their hit "La Calle de > las Sirenas": > > http://samiam.org/kabah.html > > To really digress, while the group has broken up, the singer I had a crush > on, Maria Jose, has a really post-Kabah successful solo career (@lajosa on > Twitter / http://twitter.com/#!/lajosa [1] ) > > - Sam > > [1] No, I do not know why Twitter has a "lajosa" program in their root > directory, nor what scripts written in lajosa look like. :) > > 2011/7/12 Jan-Piet Mens > >>> It's Spanish for "daemon" :) >> >> Daemon is demonio. >> Duende is an elf or goblin. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duende_(mythology) >> >> -JP >> - -- Bradley D. Thornton Manager Network Services NorthTech Computer TEL: +1.760.666.2703 (US) TEL: +44.203.318.2755 (UK) http://NorthTech.US -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Find this cert at x-hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net iQEcBAEBAwAGBQJOHrHIAAoJEE1wgkIhr9j35PAIAKo45sgz9PgkSUfyKOouyWiC yFr5cF8GKUKcMTD1oN4K2/ycottmyaFWtq/Qun0RX86HK7a8fw5F0UQ5jCShJiq/ Hik6ZcWCLhtAjqVyklo6f8HX09+dSjOONFhWIAF7DcyeAzoWJqDw7n1cVOBAtM0o zFb8Jh8ib37blOIi8EAKo0o6tAIFHleZLZ+VicJ3shMum3Lqj1H9OrJ22k3VVrsd ye2pn6wZ8IVbAwXBi5x6u+w260MMp1iSOSKUIGgLvBqApSQgDr0vEEvW3nsqIfb8 2m8jxpJUm7s3BcBfGJGNdk2i4AYZNigHUQJIc0Q8A74KoVCLQ5kAml/n00cBnSA= =zgqi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Fri Jul 15 13:35:49 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:35:49 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Patches In-Reply-To: References: <4E1DA6D7.6090201@periapt.co.uk> <4E1F6DDC.6050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E1FE9D5.3000507@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <4E207A75.9050507@periapt.co.uk> On 15/07/11 17:42, Sam Trenholme wrote: > On second thought, it is not a serious issue. Yarin's functionality is > only documented in the Deadwood version of Duende, so you're only > breaking undocumented features in the MaraDNS version of Duende. Thanks. That removes one task from the todo list. > > If you feel like documenting it, doc/en/source/duende.ej is the file to > edit. The format is described in doc/en/source/ej.doc.format The first problem is that until Debian has caught up (and the patches can be rationalized) even contemplating editing the source documentation is more hassle then it is worth. At the moment when I make changes to the docs I merely patch the man pages. The web pages are distributed as well but are not patched. To be in a position where we build the documentation from the .ej files is a small task in itself. For a start it needs to generate man pages that do not require further patching. At the moment there are two systemic issues: 1.) Some of the hyphens in the man pages get flagged up by the QA tools as needing to be changed to '\-'. I don't know enough about roff to be sure what the problem is. The title line is the one bit that gets hit by this every time. 2.) Some of the syntax lines do not have sufficiently rich formatting. I have added that in directly into the man pages. I send you the modified man page for duende. > > - Sam > > 2011/7/15 Nicholas Bamber > > > Well Yarin's patch never has been and never will be in Debian on its > own. However I was just thinking that it should not be too hard to put > backwards compatibility back into the source code. I could even #ifdef > it out on Debian. > > > On 15/07/11 02:17, Sam Trenholme wrote: > > I think having compatibility with older versions of Duende is > important; > > it's OK to have undocumented features. It's less OK to break how > > something has been working in a minor bugfix release; it's even > less OK > > to have a feature that does not work as documented. > > > > - Sam > > > > 2011/7/14 Nicholas Bamber > > >> > > > > Sam, > > YEs my patch builds on (and practically overwrites) > Yarins. I > > can send > > you the final duende.c file if tat would be better. I have a > separate > > patch for documentation but unfortunately I cannot really > define one for > > the doc source as things stand. Also I don;t think my patch is > 100% > > compatible with Yarin's. His requires a '=' after the '--pid' > and I > > believe mine unfortunately does not allow one. > > > > On 14/07/11 20:08, Sam Trenholme wrote: > > > Thank you for the patches. My plan is to apply this patch > to the > > > Deadwood version of Duende, and, if it works, percolate the > patch down > > > in to MaraDNS. Also, make sure this patch is applied to the > > version of > > > Duende > > > in > > > http://maradns.org/download/2.0/snap/maradns-Q.20110708.1.tar.bz2 or > > > another recent snapshot, since I did apply Yarin's '--pid' > code to > > > Duende already. > > > > > > - Sam > > > > > > 2011/7/13 Nicholas Bamber > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Sam, > > > I am offering up two patches. One is a spelling > patch. The > > > other is all > > > the extra argument stuff and related fixes. > > > > > > With regards to Debian bureaucracy I have just been > > made a Debian > > > developer so there is one less layer thereof. > > > > > > -- > > > Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ > > > PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ > > PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu > > > > > > > > -- > Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ > PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu > > -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Mon Jul 18 07:09:12 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:09:12 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] TCP In-Reply-To: <4E207A75.9050507@periapt.co.uk> References: <4E1DA6D7.6090201@periapt.co.uk> <4E1F6DDC.6050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E1FE9D5.3000507@periapt.co.uk> <4E207A75.9050507@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <4E241458.2090809@periapt.co.uk> Sam, I have been experimenting with TCP connections this morning. What I have found so far is as follows: 1.) fetchzone works for me. 2.) The only way of forcing a TCP connection I can find is to use the +tcp option in dig. 3.) Asking for AXFR and IXFR records via dig seems to work but does not deliver useful information. 4.) Running 'dig hostname @server +tcp' works against a bind server but against the maradns zonserver seems to generate a seg fault. I will put the full output at the end. 5.) Since askmara apparently does not have a +tcp option I am guessing that this is what you are expecting. However it was not what I was expecting given the documentation. Script started on Mon 18 Jul 2011 11:53:16 BST ? dig williams.periapt. @127.0.0.3 +tcp ; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> williams.periapt. @127.0.0.3 ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 62434 ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;williams.periapt. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: williams.periapt. 604800 IN A 192.168.2.8 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: periapt. 604800 IN NS camel.periapt. periapt. 604800 IN NS bishop.periapt. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: camel.periapt. 604800 IN A 192.168.2.1 bishop.periapt. 604800 IN A 192.168.2.2 ;; Query time: 1 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.3#53(127.0.0.3) ;; WHEN: Mon Jul 18 11:53:17 2011 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 123 ? dig williams.periapt. @127.0.0.3 +tcp ;; communications error to 127.0.0.3#53: end of file ? ? sudo grep segfault /var/log/syslog [sudo] password for nicholas: Jul 18 11:53:19 leonhartsberger kernel: [52431.946000] zoneserver[2863]: segfault at 4aaa0016 ip 0804bd68 sp bf97e7ac error 4 in zoneserver[8048000+24000] ? exit Script done on Mon 18 Jul 2011 11:53:46 BST From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 11:25:11 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 11:25:11 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] TCP In-Reply-To: <4E241458.2090809@periapt.co.uk> References: <4E1DA6D7.6090201@periapt.co.uk> <4E1F6DDC.6050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E1FE9D5.3000507@periapt.co.uk> <4E207A75.9050507@periapt.co.uk> <4E241458.2090809@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: > > 2.) The only way of forcing a TCP connection I can find is to use the > +tcp option in dig. > This is one of the reasons a lot of Deadwood's tests use Deadwood. The other is IPv6. > 3.) Asking for AXFR and IXFR records via dig seems to work but does not > deliver useful information. > > I thought I fixed this bug a while ago: http://woodlane.webconquest.com/pipermail/list/2011-July/000878.html Let me know if there are still problems 4.) Running 'dig hostname @server +tcp' works against a bind server but > against the maradns zonserver seems to generate a seg fault. I will put > the full output at the end. > > This is not a good thing. Time to generate a stack trace. To do this: * Compile zoneserver with the '-g' flag set (change the appropriate flag in zoneserver/Makefile ; with many programs "export FLAGS=-g ; make" does the trick but I don't remember off the top of my head if that works with MaraDNS) * To run "zoneserver foo bar baz" in "gdb", type in "gdb zoneserver", follow by "set args foo bar baz", followed by "run" As I recall, I had to do a bunch of stuff to fix TCP recently in the 2.0 branch of MaraDNS. Check it out: http://maradns.org/download/2.0/snap Dates are in YYYYMMDD format; 20110712 means "July 12, 2011", *not* "November 7, 2011" 5.) Since askmara apparently does not have a +tcp option I am guessing > that this is what you are expecting. However it was not what I was > expecting given the documentation. > There actually is an "askmara-tcp" that I use for some of the testing. Thanks a lot for looking at MaraDNS. I will next work on the code this Friday; my first order of business is fixing a bug in Deadwood with resolving answers.yahoo.com: http://agn2.vk.tj - Sam From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Mon Jul 18 11:34:47 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:34:47 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E1DA6D7.6090201@periapt.co.uk> <4E1F6DDC.6050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E1FE9D5.3000507@periapt.co.uk> <4E207A75.9050507@periapt.co.uk> <4E241458.2090809@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <4E245297.2080601@periapt.co.uk> Sam, I have just uploaded the latest Debian release. The next planned release was to be the Deadwood release. And I probably won't get round to it for a bit. I will however raise a bug in the Debian bug system to track this. On 18/07/11 16:25, Sam Trenholme wrote: >> >> 2.) The only way of forcing a TCP connection I can find is to use the >> +tcp option in dig. >> > > This is one of the reasons a lot of Deadwood's tests use Deadwood. The > other is IPv6. > > >> 3.) Asking for AXFR and IXFR records via dig seems to work but does not >> deliver useful information. >> >> > I thought I fixed this bug a while ago: > > http://woodlane.webconquest.com/pipermail/list/2011-July/000878.html > > Let me know if there are still problems > > 4.) Running 'dig hostname @server +tcp' works against a bind server but >> against the maradns zonserver seems to generate a seg fault. I will put >> the full output at the end. >> >> > This is not a good thing. Time to generate a stack trace. To do this: > > * Compile zoneserver with the '-g' flag set (change the appropriate flag in > zoneserver/Makefile ; with many programs "export FLAGS=-g ; make" does the > trick but I don't remember off the top of my head if that works with > MaraDNS) > > * To run "zoneserver foo bar baz" in "gdb", type in "gdb zoneserver", follow > by "set args foo bar baz", followed by "run" > > As I recall, I had to do a bunch of stuff to fix TCP recently in the 2.0 > branch of MaraDNS. Check it out: > > http://maradns.org/download/2.0/snap > > Dates are in YYYYMMDD format; 20110712 means "July 12, 2011", *not* > "November 7, 2011" > > 5.) Since askmara apparently does not have a +tcp option I am guessing >> that this is what you are expecting. However it was not what I was >> expecting given the documentation. >> > > There actually is an "askmara-tcp" that I use for some of the testing. > > Thanks a lot for looking at MaraDNS. I will next work on the code this > Friday; my first order of business is fixing a bug in Deadwood with > resolving answers.yahoo.com: > > http://agn2.vk.tj > > - Sam -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 18:51:46 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:51:46 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows Message-ID: Since JFC has made a generous MaraDNS contribution, in addition to making a release of MaraDNS 1.0 which is current with regard to security (and compiled in CentOS/SL6), I have also made a document describing how to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Winows 7, which follows. Hopefully JFC will continue his donations. If I get another donation from JFC in the same amount in August, I will do the following: * Add a document describing how to compile MaraDNS 1.4 in Windows * Update MaraDNS 1.2 to be current w.r.t. security and compile in SL6 * Add full MaraDNS support to the Linux distribution of JFC's choice available at http://wiki.openvz.org/Download/template/precreated ==How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows== The way I compile this program in Windows 7 is with MinGW-3.4.2 and MSYS-1.0.10. These programs are available at the following locations: ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/misc/ (MinGW 3.4.2) http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mingw/MSYS-1.0.10.exe?download http://samiam.org/software (both) These are both simple "I agree", "Next", "I agree", "Install"-type click-to-install packages. Install MinGW *before* installing MSYS so the MSYS installer can find MinGW; be sure to put MinGW in C:\ so the MSYS installer can find it. 1. Download the latest MaraDNS 2.0.XX version of MaraDNS. 2. Put MaraDNS-2.0.XX.tar.bz2 in your MSYS home directory (which is something like C:\MSYS\1.0\Home\Your name\) 3. Enter MSYS by double-clicking on the blue "M" icon which should be on your desktop. 3. Then enter these UNIX commands: tar xvjf MaraDNS-2.0.XX.tar.bz2 cd MaraDNS-2.0.XX/ ./configure; make At this point you should have a server/maradns.exe and a tools/askmara.exe From jefsey at jefsey.com Thu Jul 21 20:16:23 2011 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:16:23 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> At 00:51 20/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: >Since JFC has made a generous MaraDNS contribution, in addition to making a >release of MaraDNS 1.0 which is current with regard to security (and >compiled in CentOS/SL6), I have also made a document describing how to >compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Winows 7, which follows. > >Hopefully JFC will continue his donations. If I get another donation from >JFC in the same amount in August, I will do the following: > >* Add a document describing how to compile MaraDNS 1.4 in Windows >* Update MaraDNS 1.2 to be current w.r.t. security and compile in SL6 >* Add full MaraDNS support to the Linux distribution of JFC's choice >available at http://wiki.openvz.org/Download/template/precreated > >==How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows== > >The way I compile this program in Windows 7 is with MinGW-3.4.2 and >MSYS-1.0.10. These programs are available at the following locations: > >ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/misc/ (MinGW 3.4.2) >http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mingw/MSYS-1.0.10.exe?download >http://samiam.org/software (both) > >These are both simple "I agree", "Next", "I agree", "Install"-type >click-to-install packages. Install MinGW *before* installing MSYS so the >MSYS installer can find MinGW; be sure to put MinGW in C:\ so the MSYS >installer can find it. > >1. Download the latest MaraDNS 2.0.XX version of MaraDNS. >2. Put MaraDNS-2.0.XX.tar.bz2 in your MSYS home directory (which is >something like C:\MSYS\1.0\Home\Your name\) >3. Enter MSYS by double-clicking on the blue "M" icon which should >be on your desktop. >3. Then enter these UNIX commands: > >tar xvjf MaraDNS-2.0.XX.tar.bz2 >cd MaraDNS-2.0.XX/ >./configure; make > >At this point you should have a server/maradns.exe and a tools/askmara.exe thank you ! I will look at this this WE. 1. what about cigwin ? Is the compiled exe not more complete. 2. could you not talk about Deadwood in your own terms (this is for simple comprehensive note to teachers). So, previous versions are less urgent (but you know better)? 3. probably the most interesting Linux brand in that context is Unbuntu. Thank you and best regards. JFC From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 18:39:38 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:39:38 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Deadwood 3.0.03 released Message-ID: RFC2181 has this bit of text: "When a DNS client receives a reply with TC set, it should ignore that response" This should be cheerfully ignored. The fact of the matter is this: When an upstream DNS server sends us a truncated reply, they will usually give us the first 512 bytes of that reply, which can often times have useful information. Indeed, one of the answers we get while trying to process answers.yahoo.com is truncated. But has useful information. So I have added some code which will, when getting a truncated reply, grab the first answer from the truncated reply and use that. In the case of getting a reply marked truncated and not getting any information in the packet, it is still possible to enable tcp_listen and get the packet via TCP, but, with this update, this will almost never need to be done to resolve a query. Indeed, I recommend that users with tcp_listen enabled disable it when upgrading to Deadwood 3.0.03. In addition, this release of Deadwood has a number of other bug fixes from the last six months: * RA bit is no longer sent when sending recursive queries * Synthetic "not there" replies are now correctly formed DNS packets * Domains where one of the nameservers gives us a "QUERY REFUSED" correctly handled unless we are asking for an AAAA IPv6 IP (since some broken DNS servers respond to AAAA requests with "QUERY REFUSED") * SQA tests and other elements updated for Scientific Linux 6 * Example dwood3rc file updated to show how to blacklist domains It can be downloaded here: http://www.maradns.org/deadwood/stable/ I have also updated MaraDNS to use Deadwood 3.0.03: http://www.maradns.org/download/2.0/snap/ The next day I plan to work on MaraDNS/Deadwood is two weeks from today: August 5, 2011. - Sam From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 18:47:34 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:47:34 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> Message-ID: > 1. what about cigwin ? Is the compiled exe not more complete. Yes, MaraDNS should compile and run in Cygwin. I know that both MaraDNS and Deadwood have been compiled in Cygwin. > 2. could you not talk about Deadwood in your own terms (this is for simple > comprehensive note to teachers). So, previous versions are less urgent (but > you know better)? If I understand you correctly: I can reword the document not to use the second person, if this is what you wish. In order of priority: * Deadwood 3 (since this code is still fairly new, I'm still ironing out bugs in it) * MaraDNS 2 * MaraDNS 1.4 (the recursive code is no longer supported) * MaraDNS 1.3 * Deadwood 2.3 * MaraDNS 1.0 (end of life, but I may update critical security bugs) * MaraDNS 1.2 (end of life, but I may update critical security bugs) > 3. probably the most interesting Linux brand in that context is Unbuntu. Do you prefer Ubuntu 10.04 (Long-term support) or Ubuntu 11.04? - Sam From jefsey at jefsey.com Sat Jul 23 19:08:22 2011 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 01:08:22 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110724004807.06a72980@jefsey.com> At 00:47 23/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: > > 1. what about cigwin ? Is the compiled exe not more complete. > >Yes, MaraDNS should compile and run in Cygwin. I know that both >MaraDNS and Deadwood have been compiled in Cygwin. What I mean is to also document how to proceed with Cigwin, the same as with MingWG. > > 2. could you not talk about Deadwood in your own terms (this is for simple > > comprehensive note to teachers). So, previous versions are less urgent (but > > you know better)? > >If I understand you correctly: I can reword the document not to use >the second person, if this is what you wish. No. What I mean is to explain how to compile MaraDNS and Deadwood, how they fit together, when to use them. >In order of priority: > >* Deadwood 3 (since this code is still fairly new, I'm still ironing >out bugs in it) >* MaraDNS 2 I am interested in new DNS administrators/smart users/teachers and students. To provide them with a short, simple, complete picture of MaraDNS/Deadwood (I consider they form a single environment). >* MaraDNS 1.4 (the recursive code is no longer supported) >* MaraDNS 1.3 >* Deadwood 2.3 >* MaraDNS 1.0 (end of life, but I may update critical security bugs) >* MaraDNS 1.2 (end of life, but I may update critical security bugs) > > > 3. probably the most interesting Linux brand in that context is Unbuntu. > >Do you prefer Ubuntu 10.04 (Long-term support) or Ubuntu 11.04? My intent is to motivate current young users (developers shool, open source clubs). Ubuntu 11.04 is what we get as a CD right now. Do you feel there are instability issues ? Best >- Sam From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 04:54:38 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 04:54:38 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Latest Deadwood 3.0.03 In-Reply-To: <4E2BBB20.8080704@googlemail.com> References: <4E2BBB20.8080704@googlemail.com> Message-ID: I tested and run the service without problem on my Windows 7 starter 32-bit system. I do not have an x64 system to test this on. So, two questions: * Do you have a 32-bit system to test Deadwood 3.0.03 on? * Are you able to run Deadwood 3.0.02 on this same system? How about the snapshot compiles in http://maradns.org/deadwood/snap ? - Sam 2011/7/24 wayne at googlemail : > hi sam, > > tried the latest 'stable' version on my win7 x64 ultimate system, installed > service OK, but on starting the service i get a 1067 error: > > from cmd window: > > ======================================================================= > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>install > > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>mkSecretTxt.exe > secret.txt already exists > > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>Deadwood.exe --install > Deadwood service installed; start with: net start Deadwood > > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>net start Deadwood > The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service is starting. > The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service could not be > started. > > A system error has occurred. > > System error 1067 has occurred. > > The process terminated unexpectedly. > > ======================================================================= > > attempts to restart with net start fail with same error, same if tried from > services.msc > > Best Regards, > > Wayne Kroncke > > From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 05:00:38 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 05:00:38 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Latest Deadwood 3.0.03 In-Reply-To: <4E2BBB20.8080704@googlemail.com> References: <4E2BBB20.8080704@googlemail.com> Message-ID: Also: * Is there anything in dwlog.txt telling you why the service can not start? * Make sure to remove the older Deadwood service before installing the new one "Deadwood --remove" followed by "Deadwood --install" * Please email the MaraDNS list with MaraDNS support concerns, not my personal email address. - Sam 2011/7/24 wayne at googlemail : > hi sam, > > tried the latest 'stable' version on my win7 x64 ultimate system, installed > service OK, but on starting the service i get a 1067 error: > > from cmd window: > > ======================================================================= > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>install > > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>mkSecretTxt.exe > secret.txt already exists > > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>Deadwood.exe --install > Deadwood service installed; start with: net start Deadwood > > c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>net start Deadwood > The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service is starting. > The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service could not be > started. > > A system error has occurred. > > System error 1067 has occurred. > > The process terminated unexpectedly. > > ======================================================================= > > attempts to restart with net start fail with same error, same if tried from > services.msc > > Best Regards, > > Wayne Kroncke > > From wayne.kroncke at tiscali.co.uk Sun Jul 24 08:43:35 2011 From: wayne.kroncke at tiscali.co.uk (wayne at tiscali) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 13:43:35 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Latest Deadwood 3.0.03 In-Reply-To: References: <4E2BBB20.8080704@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <4E2C1377.4050105@tiscali.co.uk> hi sam, operator error - pebkac. on the s/w support forum i moderate, my first advice is normally to check the logs. i obviously need to follow my own (and your) advice :) dwlog.txt extract: 24 July 2011 07:21:50: Fatal error in dwood3rc file on line 28 incomplete last line i'd recycled my old dwood3rc file, tarted it up with my upstream dns servers from google's namebench & set the max cache elements to 16k. i also somehow removed the cr/lf from the end of the line. added it back in & it all works now Sheepishly yours, wayne On 24 Jul 2011 10:00, Sam Trenholme wrote: > Also: > > * Is there anything in dwlog.txt telling you why the service can not start? > > * Make sure to remove the older Deadwood service before installing the > new one "Deadwood --remove" followed by "Deadwood --install" > > * Please email the MaraDNS list with MaraDNS support concerns, not my > personal email address. > > - Sam > > 2011/7/24 wayne at googlemail: >> hi sam, >> >> tried the latest 'stable' version on my win7 x64 ultimate system, installed >> service OK, but on starting the service i get a 1067 error: >> >> from cmd window: >> >> ======================================================================= >> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>install >> >> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>mkSecretTxt.exe >> secret.txt already exists >> >> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>Deadwood.exe --install >> Deadwood service installed; start with: net start Deadwood >> >> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>net start Deadwood >> The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service is starting. >> The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service could not be >> started. >> >> A system error has occurred. >> >> System error 1067 has occurred. >> >> The process terminated unexpectedly. >> >> ======================================================================= >> >> attempts to restart with net start fail with same error, same if tried from >> services.msc >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Wayne Kroncke >> >> From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 14:20:10 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:20:10 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] Latest Deadwood 3.0.03 In-Reply-To: <4E2C1377.4050105@tiscali.co.uk> References: <4E2BBB20.8080704@googlemail.com> <4E2C1377.4050105@tiscali.co.uk> Message-ID: Also a bug on my side -- I should, ideally, consider an incomplete last line one that has finished then and there. Also, I accidentally forgot to include "mkSecretTxt.exe" with the first upload of Deadwood 3.0.03, forcing me to upload it again. MaraDNS has a fairly similar bug: If there is a parse error in the zone file, MaraDNS will immediately stop parsing that zone file and move on to the next zone file. In reality, sometimes it's better that this is fatal for MaraDNS as a whole so that a parse error in a zone file doesn't result in NXDOMAINs ("this host does not exist") getting cached across the internet. Of course, what would be really idea is that, if MaraDNS gets a parse error, to discard that record, move on to the next '~', and start parsing records again. But, quite frankly, the csv2 parsing code is fairly messy at this point so I am a little reluctant adding features to it. Note to self: Do not implement a finite state machine as raw C code; indeed in Deadwood the FSM parser (for reading dwood3rc) reads the machine definition from a string in the Deadwood.exe file. Next time, I may be more sensible and do what every other C coder does: Use a combination of Flex/YACC/Lex/Bison. - Sam 2011/7/24 wayne at tiscali : > hi sam, > > operator error - pebkac. > > on the s/w support forum i moderate, my first advice is normally to check > the logs. > > i obviously need to follow my own (and your) advice :) > > dwlog.txt extract: > > 24 July 2011 07:21:50: Fatal error in dwood3rc file on line 28 incomplete > last line > > i'd recycled my old dwood3rc file, tarted it up with my upstream dns servers > from google's namebench & set the max cache elements to 16k. > > i also somehow removed the cr/lf from the end of the line. > > added it back in & it all works now > > Sheepishly yours, > > wayne > > On 24 Jul 2011 10:00, Sam Trenholme wrote: >> >> Also: >> >> * Is there anything in dwlog.txt telling you why the service can not >> start? >> >> * Make sure to remove the older Deadwood service before installing the >> new one "Deadwood --remove" followed by "Deadwood --install" >> >> * Please email the MaraDNS list with MaraDNS support concerns, not my >> personal email address. >> >> - Sam >> >> 2011/7/24 wayne at googlemail: >>> >>> hi sam, >>> >>> tried the latest 'stable' version on my win7 x64 ultimate system, >>> installed >>> service OK, but on starting the service i get a 1067 error: >>> >>> from cmd window: >>> >>> ======================================================================= >>> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>install >>> >>> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>mkSecretTxt.exe >>> secret.txt already exists >>> >>> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>Deadwood.exe --install >>> Deadwood service installed; start with: net start Deadwood >>> >>> c:\Program Files (x86)\Deadwood>net start Deadwood >>> The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service is starting. >>> The Deadwood DNS cache http://maradns.org/deadwood service could not be >>> started. >>> >>> A system error has occurred. >>> >>> System error 1067 has occurred. >>> >>> The process terminated unexpectedly. >>> >>> ======================================================================= >>> >>> attempts to restart with net start fail with same error, same if tried >>> from >>> services.msc >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Wayne Kroncke >>> >>> > From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 15:14:31 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:14:31 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110724004807.06a72980@jefsey.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110724004807.06a72980@jefsey.com> Message-ID: > My intent is to motivate current young users (developers school, open source > clubs). Ubuntu 11.04 is what we get as a CD right now. Do you feel there are > instability issues ? The issues I've seen with Ubuntu 11.04 is that: * Some old-times don't like the new interface (such old times, in my humble opinion, should be using Scientific Linux 6, which has just about the same interface as Ubunto 10.04 and will be fully supported until late 2017) * Ubuntu 10.04 is a long term release--this means that it is supported until April 2013 (desktop) and April 2015 (server). Ubuntu 11.04 is only going to be supported upstream until October 2012 or so. * It's a newer release, trying out new technologies such as the Unity interface. One reviewer mentioned that it's "beta quality" [1]. Personally, my plan would be to support Ubuntu 10.04 this month, then, if the donations continue, I will begin work on adding Ubuntu 11.04 support. Nicholas Bamber has been doing a lot of work getting MaraDNS 1.4 to be part of a well-behaved Debian package so I'll end up integrating a lot of his work in to MaraDNS 2.0 making it play nicely with Ubuntu 10.04. His hard work makes it easier for me to port MaraDNS 2.0 to Ubuntu. - Sam [1] http://agxa.vk.tj To preview this link: http://preview.agxa.vk.tj/ From jefsey at jefsey.com Sun Jul 24 17:18:04 2011 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 23:18:04 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110724004807.06a72980@jefsey.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110724231156.06a72c10@jefsey.com> I was not aware of such risks due to the interface for programs like MaraDNS/Deadword, etc. If this is the case Scientific Linux is a better choice. Academics will be happy with it. Including Deawood in the Windows compilation explanation and cigwin are my priorities before Linux. Thank you ! jfc At 21:14 24/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: > > My intent is to motivate current young users (developers school, > open source > > clubs). Ubuntu 11.04 is what we get as a CD right now. Do you > feel there are > > instability issues ? > >The issues I've seen with Ubuntu 11.04 is that: > >* Some old-times don't like the new interface (such old times, in my >humble opinion, should be using Scientific Linux 6, which has just >about the same interface as Ubunto 10.04 and will be fully supported >until late 2017) > >* Ubuntu 10.04 is a long term release--this means that it is supported >until April 2013 (desktop) and April 2015 (server). Ubuntu 11.04 is >only going to be supported upstream until October 2012 or so. > >* It's a newer release, trying out new technologies such as the Unity >interface. One reviewer mentioned that it's "beta quality" [1]. > >Personally, my plan would be to support Ubuntu 10.04 this month, then, >if the donations continue, I will begin work on adding Ubuntu 11.04 >support. > >Nicholas Bamber has been doing a lot of work getting MaraDNS 1.4 to be >part of a well-behaved Debian package so I'll end up integrating a lot >of his work in to MaraDNS 2.0 making it play nicely with Ubuntu 10.04. > His hard work makes it easier for me to port MaraDNS 2.0 to Ubuntu. > >- Sam > >[1] http://agxa.vk.tj To preview this link: http://preview.agxa.vk.tj/ From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 21:19:13 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 05:19:13 +0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110724231156.06a72c10@jefsey.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110724004807.06a72980@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110724231156.06a72c10@jefsey.com> Message-ID: OK, that in mind I'll hold off Ubuntu 10.04 support until August and, in the meantime, I'll put Cygwin on my Windows 7 partition again and make sure MaraDNS 2.0 and Deadwood compile nicely in it. I'll also write up a step-by-step guide for Compiling MaraDNS 1.4 in Windows. Nicholas Bamber has already done most of the heavy lifting of a full Debian/Ubuntu MaraDNS port; from my end, it's just a question of adding his patched to Duende and start up scripts to the MaraDNS 2.0 tarball to make them official. - Sam 2011/7/25 JFC Morfin : > I was not aware of such risks due to the interface for programs like > MaraDNS/Deadword, etc. If this is the case Scientific Linux is a better > choice. Academics will be happy with it. > Including Deawood in the Windows compilation explanation and cigwin are my > priorities before Linux. > Thank you ! > jfc > > At 21:14 24/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: >> >> > My intent is to motivate current young users (developers school, open >> > source >> > clubs). Ubuntu 11.04 is what we get as a CD right now. Do you feel there >> > are >> > instability issues ? >> >> The issues I've seen with Ubuntu 11.04 is that: >> >> * Some old-times don't like the new interface (such old times, in my >> humble opinion, should be using Scientific Linux 6, which has just >> about the same interface as Ubunto 10.04 and will be fully supported >> until late 2017) >> >> * Ubuntu 10.04 is a long term release--this means that it is supported >> until April 2013 (desktop) and April 2015 (server). ?Ubuntu 11.04 is >> only going to be supported upstream until October 2012 or so. >> >> * It's a newer release, trying out new technologies such as the Unity >> interface. ?One reviewer mentioned that it's "beta quality" [1]. >> >> Personally, my plan would be to support Ubuntu 10.04 this month, then, >> if the donations continue, I will begin work on adding Ubuntu 11.04 >> support. >> >> Nicholas Bamber has been doing a lot of work getting MaraDNS 1.4 to be >> part of a well-behaved Debian package so I'll end up integrating a lot >> of his work in to MaraDNS 2.0 making it play nicely with Ubuntu 10.04. >> ?His hard work makes it easier for me to port MaraDNS 2.0 to Ubuntu. >> >> - Sam >> >> [1] http://agxa.vk.tj To preview this link: http://preview.agxa.vk.tj/ > > From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 23:56:52 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 23:56:52 -0400 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110724231156.06a72c10@jefsey.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110724004807.06a72980@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110724231156.06a72c10@jefsey.com> Message-ID: I have verified that the latest snapshot of MaraDNS 2.0 compiles without problem "out of the box" in Cygwin. To compile MaraDNS: tar xvjf maradns-2.{version}.tar.bz2 cd maradns-2.{version} ./configure ; make At this point, there should be a server/maradns.exe, a tools/askmara.exe, and, unlike the native Windows compile, a tcp/zoneserver.exe, a tools/duende.exe, a tools/askmara-tcp.exe, as well as a deadwood-3.0.03/src/deadwood.exe - Sam From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jul 25 03:54:18 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 00:54:18 -0700 Subject: [MaraDNS list] How to compile MaraDNS 2.0 in Windows In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20110722020227.05f6b888@jefsey.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110724004807.06a72980@jefsey.com> Message-ID: <20110725075418.GM26508@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Sam Trenholme (strenholme.usenet at gmail.com): > * Some old-timers don't like the new interface (such old timers, in my > humble opinion, should be using Scientific Linux 6, which has just > about the same interface as Ubuntu 10.04 and will be fully supported > until late 2017) > > * Ubuntu 10.04 is a long term release--this means that it is supported > until April 2013 (desktop) and April 2015 (server). Ubuntu 11.04 is > only going to be supported upstream until October 2012 or so. > > * It's a newer release, trying out new technologies such as the Unity > interface. One reviewer mentioned that it's "beta quality" [1]. People who like Ubuntu with GNOME Shell will probably be fine with Linux Mint, which is basically Ubuntu + proprietary codecs with GNOME Shell rather than Unity. http://www.linuxmint.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint#Ubuntu-based_editions From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Mon Jul 25 17:02:43 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:02:43 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] duende changes Message-ID: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> For your amusement I have put together a more colourful account of my recent changes to duende. http://www.periapt.co.uk/arcana/struggling-with-duende -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 18:22:07 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:22:07 -0500 Subject: [MaraDNS list] duende changes In-Reply-To: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> References: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: > http://www.periapt.co.uk/arcana/struggling-with-duende The name Duende is "daemon" in Spanish, as the page points out. As per the recent discussion on this list, "Duende" is the appropriate translation for people from the BSD camp who pronounce "daemon" "day-min"; people who pronounce "daemon" "demon" would be better off with the word "demonio". It also comes from this line in "La Calle de las Sirenas" by Kabah: Parece que s?lo levantan la mirada cuando los duendes pasan hacia el castillo (Roughly translated: It seems that one only looks up [to see some faeries mentioned in the previous line] when the /duendes/ pass by on to the castle) When I asked a native speaker to translate "duende", she described something that made me think of the BSD daemon: http://www.freebsd.org/art.html Anyway, on to the changes: short form long form description -c --chroot=DIR Directory log helper should change and chroot to -g --gid=GID Groupid log helper should change down to -i --ident=STR How log helper should be identified in syslog -p --pid=FILE File used to store pid of duende process -r --restart_on=INT Exit status on which to restart child process -u --uid=UID Userid log helper should change down to Nicholas: Can I add this table to the MaraDNS documentation? >These arguments are parsed with the argp library I always get a little worried whenever we add a new library to MaraDNS' codebase. The reason being that it could make it harder for embedded users to port MaraDNS to their embedded platform. Before integrating the patch, I will have to ensure it cleanly links against an older uClibc. Hopefully the BSDs' libcs have the argp functionality, but it looks like this functionality is not quite 100% stable: http://agya.vk.tj What I will probably do is add a "duende-simple.c" and add a note to the README saying that, if "duende.c" doesn't compile, to try compiling duende-simple.c >[...] in some cases the log helper process gets missed and so a >zombie process gets created. This Debian version reaps all >exited child processes and takes the appropriate action >according to whether this was a main child, the log helper >or something that got missed from a previous cycle. I think this is a good bugfix-only improvement to have and I think I will make this a separate patch from the extended argument processing. My goal is to give MaraDNS users the benefit of extended Duende functionality without the bugs adding new functionality inevitably adds. I am very careful about what patches I integrate in to MaraDNS because I have had to more than once deal with issues caused by a patch someone else contributed. For example: http://agyb.vk.tj It sometimes takes years for people to notice bugs in MaraDNS and 99 times out of 100, the person who has contributed the patch has long since lost interest in MaraDNS so I'm the one left holding the hot potato. So, yes, I'm really excited by having some long-standing bugs in Duende fixed and some functionality added. On the other hand, I hope this patch doesn't add any other bugs to the MaraDNS codebase. - Sam From remco at webconquest.com Tue Jul 26 01:00:49 2011 From: remco at webconquest.com (Remco Rijnders) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 07:00:49 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] duende changes In-Reply-To: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> References: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <20110726050049.GE14908@winter.webconquest.com> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:02:43PM +0100, Nicholas Bamber wrote: >For your amusement I have put together a more colourful account of my >recent changes to duende. > >http://www.periapt.co.uk/arcana/struggling-with-duende Hi Nicholas, That makes for some interesting reading and useful additions to duende. Thanks for the work put into this, and keep up the good work! :-) Remco From nicholas at periapt.co.uk Tue Jul 26 01:58:26 2011 From: nicholas at periapt.co.uk (Nicholas Bamber) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 06:58:26 +0100 Subject: [MaraDNS list] duende changes In-Reply-To: References: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <4E2E5782.5020201@periapt.co.uk> On 25/07/11 23:22, Sam Trenholme wrote: >> http://www.periapt.co.uk/arcana/struggling-with-duende > > > Anyway, on to the changes: > > short form long form description > -c --chroot=DIR Directory log helper should change and chroot to > -g --gid=GID Groupid log helper should change down to > -i --ident=STR How log helper should be identified in syslog > -p --pid=FILE File used to store pid of duende process > -r --restart_on=INT Exit status on which to restart child process > -u --uid=UID Userid log helper should change down to > > Nicholas: Can I add this table to the MaraDNS documentation? > Sam, Please use the information and patch as you see fit. -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 02:51:00 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:51:00 -0500 Subject: [MaraDNS list] duende changes In-Reply-To: <4E2E5782.5020201@periapt.co.uk> References: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E2E5782.5020201@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: > ? ? ? ?Please use the information and patch as you see fit. I should do so in about a week (as part of the project to make MaraDNS Ubuntu-compatible out of the box). I hope to have time to finish up the compiling MaraDNS 1.4 in Windows documentation (using either Cygwin or Mingw) this week. - Sam From jefsey at jefsey.com Tue Jul 26 06:36:19 2011 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 12:36:19 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] duende changes In-Reply-To: References: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E2E5782.5020201@periapt.co.uk> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110726103025.055aaf28@jefsey.com> At 08:51 26/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: > > Please use the information and patch as you see fit. > >I should do so in about a week (as part of the project to make MaraDNS >Ubuntu-compatible out of the box). I hope to have time to finish up >the compiling MaraDNS 1.4 in Windows documentation (using either >Cygwin or Mingw) this week. I hope MaraDNS2.0/Deadwood are included in this :-) jfc From strenholme.usenet at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 07:47:03 2011 From: strenholme.usenet at gmail.com (Sam Trenholme) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 06:47:03 -0500 Subject: [MaraDNS list] duende changes In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110726103025.055aaf28@jefsey.com> References: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E2E5782.5020201@periapt.co.uk> <7.0.1.0.2.20110726103025.055aaf28@jefsey.com> Message-ID: > I hope MaraDNS2.0/Deadwood are included in this :-) Yes, they are. I plan on adding Nick's version of Duende to the next MaraDNS release (with the name duende-debian) and I already have the documentation for compiling MaraDNS 2.0 as well as Deadwood in Windows: http://agza.vk.tj http://agzb.vk.tj [1] If you're looking for something that is simple that students can look at, I recommend the 2.3 branch of Deadwood, which is a lot simpler than Deadwood 3.0 (no messy recursion) and a lot cleaner than MaraDNS 2.0 (my C coding has gotten better over the years): http://maradns.org/deadwood/tiny/ This code has a lot of things worth showing students: * A simple finite state machine for parsing dwoodrc files * Caching via a hashed one-dimensional "associative array" object (keys and values are always strings) * select() model to allow multiple simultaneous clients without messy threading or inelegant fork()ing. * Windows service code (included in the code because Windows basically forces me to do so) as well as UNIX daemonization by Nick's favorite MaraDNS/Deadwood program, Duende. Allows you to compare and contrast the two approaches. * Cross-platform socket code. Allows comparison between how a native Windows application handles sockets compared to Linux and other UNIX clones. This code goes to an upstream DNS server, grabs a DNS record as-is from that server and passes it on to the client requesting the DNS record. Caching is done via a LRU linked list (yes, like many programmers, I independently re-invented the LRU) and it is possible to store the cache in a file. CERN (you know, the lab who helped invent the World Wide Web which I'm using to write this email right now) uses this package, and it's very good for people who don't need full recursion in a 32k binary (i386). - Sam [1] vk.tj is my own personal link shortening domain, so it can be trusted. If you want to preview a link, use a form like http://preview.agza.vk.tj or http://agza.vk.tj/+ (these are the two standard ways of previewing a shortened URL) From jefsey at jefsey.com Tue Jul 26 18:25:16 2011 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 00:25:16 +0200 Subject: [MaraDNS list] "students" In-Reply-To: References: <4E2DD9F3.4050301@periapt.co.uk> <4E2E5782.5020201@periapt.co.uk> <7.0.1.0.2.20110726103025.055aaf28@jefsey.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110726232152.055ab820@jefsey.com> Thank you for this information. I plan to explore it as follows. I am talking of students interested in the best DNS use and extension architecture. I observed three progressive types of interest among the few people I explained the DNS this year and how MaraDNS/Deadwood could be a key part of the solution. This year I want to tell them: 1. "here is the code and the how to compile and use (using your doc) under windows and linux (and hopefully inferno). Play, get familiar, etc. with it!" 2. what managing environement would you need to develop for a MaraDNS/Deadwood DNS? Let discuss, develop, test and deploy together! 3. "what would you like to add/change to MaraDNS/Deadwood to adapt it to your own ideas on their environment?" In that third case a function prototyping system, is of the essence. You seem to tell that TinyDeadwood could be a good test-bed for functional evaluation. This is great! Let proceed step by step. May be can I spend time on this in august; before the new academic year begining. Best jfc At 13:47 26/07/2011, Sam Trenholme wrote: > > I hope MaraDNS2.0/Deadwood are included in this :-) > >Yes, they are. I plan on adding Nick's version of Duende to the next >MaraDNS release (with the name duende-debian) and I already have the >documentation for compiling MaraDNS 2.0 as well as Deadwood in >Windows: > >http://agza.vk.tj http://agzb.vk.tj [1] > >If you're looking for something that is simple that students can look >at, I recommend the 2.3 branch of Deadwood, which is a lot simpler >than Deadwood 3.0 (no messy recursion) and a lot cleaner than MaraDNS >2.0 (my C coding has gotten better over the years): > >http://maradns.org/deadwood/tiny/ > >This code has a lot of things worth showing students: > >* A simple finite state machine for parsing dwoodrc files > >* Caching via a hashed one-dimensional "associative array" object >(keys and values are always strings) > >* select() model to allow multiple simultaneous clients without messy >threading or inelegant fork()ing. > >* Windows service code (included in the code because Windows basically >forces me to do so) as well as UNIX daemonization by Nick's favorite >MaraDNS/Deadwood program, Duende. Allows you to compare and contrast >the two approaches. > >* Cross-platform socket code. Allows comparison between how a native >Windows application handles sockets compared to Linux and other UNIX >clones. > >This code goes to an upstream DNS server, grabs a DNS record as-is >from that server and passes it on to the client requesting the DNS >record. Caching is done via a LRU linked list (yes, like many >programmers, I independently re-invented the LRU) and it is possible >to store the cache in a file. > >CERN (you know, the lab who helped invent the World Wide Web which I'm >using to write this email right now) uses this package, and it's very >good for people who don't need full recursion in a 32k binary (i386). > >- Sam > >[1] vk.tj is my own personal link shortening domain, so it can be >trusted. If you want to preview a link, use a form like >http://preview.agza.vk.tj or http://agza.vk.tj/+ (these are the two >standard ways of previewing a shortened URL)